The Clay Shaw trial testimony of Wilma Bond
February 14, 1969



WILMA IRENE BOND, having been first duly sworn by the Minute Clerk, was examined and testified as follows:

Q: Mrs. Bond, I want you to make sure you speak into the microphone so all of these gentlemen will be able to hear you plainly and distinctly. Where do you live, Mrs. Bond?

A: Dallas, Texas.

Q: And how long have you lived in Dallas?

A: Twenty years.

Q: Now, Mrs. Bond, were you in Dallas, Texas, on November 22, 1963?

A: Yes, I was.

Q: Did you have occasion to be in Dealey Plaza on that day?

A: Yes, I was.

Q: Approximately what time did you arrive at Dealey Plaza?

A: Well, it was right after the Kennedys landed at Fort Worth, I guess it was about 11:00, after 11:00 o'clock when we walked over to Dealey Plaza.

Q: What was your purpose for going to Dealey Plaza?

A: To see the President of the United States.

Q: What location in Dealey Plaza did you position yourself?

A: The -- on Main and Houston Street.

Q: Would you please step down. First I would ask you to step over to this large board here, and it has been previously marked as "State Exhibit 35," and please point out the location where you were, the position that you first were when you were in Dealey Plaza?

A: Well, right here, right in here, I was standing right where I am pointing, right here.

Q: You may return to your seat.

MR. DYMOND: May we suggest that the witness mark the spot?

MR. ALFORD: We will in a moment. Your Honor, I would appreciate the opportunity to carry out my own examination.

Q: Now, is the position that you have just pointed or in what position were you when you first saw the Presidential motorcade that you in fact saw?

A: I beg your pardon? I don't understand what you mean.

Q: In what location in Dealey Plaza were you when you first saw the Presidential limousine?

A: I was standing where I was pointing, facing Main Street.

MR. DYMOND: We object to that, we are entitled to have the records show the lady's testimony, and the record does not show anything unless she marks it.

MR. ALFORD: I would request that Mr. Dymond allow me to proceed. If she has not indicated it clearly when I tender the witness and he wants her to indicate it, he may ask her to do so. I would simply appreciate the opportunity to proceed, and I think the objection is premature and will be unnecessary by the time I finish my examination.

MR. DYMOND: We are entitled to a stenographic transcript of this proceeding, at least to have it all taken down. There is no way in the world that the court reporter can take it down when the witness walks to a chart, places her finger there and does not put a mark. It means nothing in the record. Suppose she puts her finger in two different places at two different times? We are entitled to know it or have it marked.

THE COURT: I think it will clarify the record. Go put a "B" at the spot where you say you were standing there, please, "B" for Bond, and that will clear up the thing.

(Witness making chart.)

THE COURT: Circle it, please.

(Witness doing so.)

THE COURT: You may come back.

Q: Now, Mrs. Bond, in what direction and on what street was the Presidential limousine proceeding at the time you first saw it?

A: It was turning the corner from Main onto Houston.

Q: And was it proceeding towards what was -- what is the name of the street that it was proceeding towards?

A: Elm Street.

Q: And did the -- were you able to observe the Presidential limousine at all times?

MR. DYMOND: I object to leading the witness, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Rephrase your question.

Q: At what time did you lose sight of the Presidential limousine, if in fact you ever did?

A: When he turned the corner.

Q: Which corner?

A: To go down Elm Street.

Q: Now, what did you do if anything at this point?

A: I watched the President's car turn onto Houston Street, then I turned and I had a camera and I was trying to take a picture of the Depository, but my camera does not take double exposures and I had forgot to wind the camera, I did not take any, and I proceeded going over toward this alcove or whatever it is to take some pictures.

Q: And did you hear any unusual noises in Dealey Plaza?

A: I heard what I thought was a firecracker, a firecracker.

Q: And what were you doing at the time you heard this noise?

A: I was trying to take a picture of the building, or I mean the corner there, and that is when I realized that I had not cocked my camera and I felt, well, when I heard what I thought was a firecracker.

Q: And what did you do after this?

A: Well, I proceeded on over to the alcove, whatever you want to call it.

Q: Now, Mrs. Bond, would you please step down from the witness stand and come over to this large map. I am going to give you a pin with a small flag which has your name written on it, and I ask you to please attach this pin to this large map at the location where you were at the alcove. Now, Mrs. Bond, I direct your attention to what, for purposes of identification, the State has marked as "S-34," and step over here, if you will. Now, I ask you whether or not you -- I ask you to place a small "x" on this which would indicate your position at the alcove.

A: On here?

Q: Yes.

A: If it is the last one, it is the last whatever you call that, a pigeonhole, so to speak. It was the last pigeonhole or whatever it was, the opening there that I went to.

Q: Will you place a small "x" at this point.

A: Yes (indicating).

Q: Now, Mrs. Bond, I will give you a small statue of a woman and I would ask you, directing your attention to what we have marked as "S-36," I would ask you to please place this in the location where you were standing at the alcove.

A: Yes (doing so).

Q: You may return to the witness chair. Now, Mrs. Bond, you have testified that you heard one noise. While you were in Dealey Plaza, did you hear any additional unusual noises?

A: I heard two more.

Q: I see. And what were the sounds characteristic of, if you know?

A: Still firecrackers to me.

Q: Were you able or do you -- did you at the time have any idea as to where these noises were coming from?

A: No, other than I was walking -- let's see, to the west, and I would be turned to the right and coming from this side --

Q: Well, you would be -- what land object which is indicated on the aerial photograph would you have been walking toward?

A: Well, I would be walking toward the triple underpass, I mean, in that general direction.

Q: Now, did the sounds appear to you to emanate from your right or left?

A: From my right.

Q: Were you able to determine any specific location to your right in reference to in front of you or in back of you?

A: No, sir.

Q: Now, Mrs. Bond, were you in such a position that you could observe the Presidential limousine while it was on Elm Street?

A: No, sir, I did not see the Presidential limousine after it turned the corner on Houston and Elm.

Q: Were you in such a position that after hearing the last noise which you have described as a firecracker, that you could then observe the reactions of persons who were also in Dealey Plaza?

A: Yes, I did.

Q: And what was this reaction?

A: I took a few pictures of some of them falling down, some of them were running toward the grassy knoll over on the other side --

MR. DYMOND: I think if this lady took pictures, these pictures are probably the best evidence.

MR. OSER: She has the right to finish her answer without being interrupted.

THE COURT: She can say what she saw. She was telling us what the pictures show. Are you telling us what the pictures show or what you saw yourself?

THE WITNESS: I took pictures.

Q: Well, after hearing the last noise which you have described as a firecracker, did you take any photographs?

A: Yes.

Q: Do you have two of these photographs in your possession at this time?

A: I don't have any photographs, I have got the 35-millimeter slides.

Q: Would you please take these out.

A: I sure will.

THE COURT: Before we go into that, keep them in your possession, we will pick this up when we come back. This is a whole new field that you are going into. Rather than start it now, let's do it when we come back from lunch.

MR. ALFORD: All right, Your Honor.

THE COURT: Gentlemen of the Jury, I must admonish you again and instruct you not to discuss the case or any aspects with anyone until it is finally turned over to you for your determination. Let everybody have a seat. Let the Jury be excused for lunch, and we will return back at 1:30. Mr. Shaw, you are excused under your bond and the Court will return at 1:30.

(Whereupon, a luncheon recess was taken.)

PROCEEDINGS In Open Court on Friday, February 14, 1969


THE COURT: Is the State and Defense ready to proceed?


MR. ALFORD: The State is ready.

MRS. WILMA I. BOND, recalled to the stand, continued to testify on her oath as follows:

THE COURT: Mrs. Bond, your previous oath is still binding and you are still a State witness.

Q: Mrs. Bond, did you have occasion while you were in Dealey Plaza and shortly after you heard what you testified to to be the third unusual noise to take a photograph?

A: Yes, sir.

Q: Do you -- how many photographs did you take?

A: I took nine.

Q: Do you have two of those photographs with you?

A: Yes, sir, I do.

Q: Please give them to me.

A: (The witness complies.)

Q: Have these photographs been in your possession continually since they were developed?

A: No, sir.

Q: And in whose possession have they been other than yours?

A: Well, Life Magazine had them for a while and several other people used them but they had permission to do so.

Q: After receiving these slides back were you able to look at them and identify them as the slides which you took?

A: Yes, sir.

THE COURT: I have a magnifying glass.

THE WITNESS: It won't help because it needs a projector, Your Honor.

Q: Mrs. Bond, from -- I want you to please examine these two photographs now, hold them up to the light and examine them --

A: They are my slides, sir.

MR. ALFORD: Your Honor, at this time the State would request permission to project these slides on a screen and I understand that perhaps Defense Counsel would prefer to have this initially done out of the presence of the Jury.

MR. DYMOND: We don't know yet what these photographs are and we would like to ask some questions on traverse before we go into that. It doesn't matter whether it's in front of the Jury or not, Your Honor.

Q: Mrs. Bond, these slides which you have exhibited here, did you develop the negative yourself?

A: No, sir, I did not.

Q: Were you present while it was being developed?

A: No.

Q: And you say while you were taking pictures you were not able to look and see what was going on in this -- in the area?

A: When you are taking the picture you are looking but it was snapped fast as I could and I didn't see what was going on until they were developed and after I did see the things.

MR. DYMOND: I would like the Jury removed, Your Honor.


THE COURT: Do you want the lights out, Mr. Oser?

MR. OSER: Would you step down, Mrs. Bond. We're ready, Judge.

THE COURT: Turn the lights out, Sal.


MR. OSER: Does the Court want them run again?

THE COURT: Ask Mrs. Bond if she needs them again.


THE COURT: Put the lights on, Mr. Sheriff.

Q: Mrs. Bond, after viewing these two photographs are you able to identify them as being your photographs?

A: They are photographs I took, sir, they are slides.

THE COURT: I think you have covered the matter, Mr. Alford, she has covered the matter and let's bring them in and cover it again.


THE COURT: You may proceed.

Q: Mrs. Bond, I am going to once again hand you these two color slides and I would ask you to tell me which of the color slides were taken first in sequence of time.

A: The one I have marked four.

Q: The one that has been marked four?

THE COURT: Why don't you give it an exhibit number, Mr. Alford.

THE CLERK: The next number is thirty-nine.


THE WITNESS: This one was taken after that one and it is marked five. I'm sorry.

MR. ALFORD: Approximately how long --

THE COURT: Mark that State-40, please, so we can keep track of the numbers.

Q: Referring to what for purposes of identification has been marked as S-39 Mrs. Bond, which you stated was your first photograph, how long after the last noise which you have testified that you heard was it before you took this photograph, if you know?

A: (No response.)

MR. DYMOND: Just a moment please. We object to any testimony concerning these photographs, or with reference to them, on the ground that the proper foundation has not been laid. All this lady testified to is that she took two pictures, took some film to a developer and this is what she got back and she is not able to identify these photographs as to what she saw there that day, was not present when the negatives were developed and that the original has been out of her possession and in the hands of other people and I don't think there has been a sufficient amount of identification between what she took and what is on these slides.

THE COURT: The objection is overruled.

MR. DYMOND: To which ruling Counsel reserves a bill of exception making the two exhibits -- what are the numbers -- State-39 and State-40 and the Defense's objections, the ruling of the Court, the testimony of this witness and also all of the record up to this point making as an additional ground for the objection that they are irrelevant to the issues in this case.

Q: Mrs. Bond, I'm going to show you what for purposes of identification has been marked S-41 and also for purposes of identification marked S-39 and ask you to please examine these two and tell me whether or not they are one and the same scene.

A: They are far as I could see.

Q: Do you see anything on what has been marked S-41, which is a photograph, that is not in S-39, which is not depicted in S-39? Take your time.

A: I am. Yes, it is. You see over here this might not have been developed, I don't know how they were developed but there are some objects in the corner here that are not on here.

Q: Are these the same objects located on the print?

A: No, they are not and it looks like there should have been something out here further.

Q: Everything located on the print is also contained on the slide through?

A: Yes.

Q: Thank you. Now, Mrs. Bond, as I was asking you before and I'll ask you once again: How long after you heard the third noise, which you previously have testified to, was it before you took this photograph, if you know?

A: I don't know, sir.

Q: Are you able at this time to estimate?

A: No, I have no idea the time it happened, I do not know.

Q: What were you doing at the time you took this photograph?

A: I was standing there looking out.

Q: Is this from the location by the arcade --

MR. DYMOND: Object, Your Honor.

THE COURT: I sustain the objection.

Q: What location is this?

A: It is north on that place over there, that alcove.

Q: Did you observe the events prior to the time that this photograph, this slide was taken?

A: Well, I don't know, I might have a second or two before I decided to take the picture but I don't remember.

Q: Did you observe the events in Dealey Plaza after you took this photograph?

A: Just walking around out of curiosity, that is all and looking.

Q: Now, Mrs. Bond I now show you what for purposes of identification, what for purposes of identification I have marked S-42, and I also show you what for purposes of identification has been previously marked as S-40 and I would ask you to compare these and tell the Gentlemen of the Jury if there is anything contained in the print that is not contained in the slide?

A: No, this one seems to be exactly the same.

Q: I see. Thank you.

MR. ALFORD: The State will tender the witness, Your Honor.

Q: Mrs. Bond, when did you first find out that President Kennedy was going to visit Dallas?

A: When?

Q: About how long before the time of the assassination?

A: Well, I can't -- I mean I would say at least a couple of weeks, I'm not sure whether I'm right on the time or not but it was not the day.

Q: Now as I understand it you heard three distinct noises that you thought to be firecrackers going off, is that right?

A: That is correct.

Q: And that you were standing there, that you were standing in the vicinity of the uppermost of the two alcoves that appear in the State Exhibit S-34, is that right?

A: No, when I heard the shots, no, sir, I was in the process of going from my position on Main Street to that alcove.

Q: In other words you were some place in this area when you heard the shots fired?

A: Yes, sir.

Q: Between the alcove and your previous position on Main?

A: On Main and Houston, on that corner.

Q: Am I correct in recalling your testimony that you thought these noises came from your right?

A: Beg pardon?

Q: Did you not say you thought these noises came from your right?

A: Yes, sir.

Q: And at that time you were walking you were walking towards this alcove I am indicating which is the uppermost indicated on the photograph?

A: Well, if I understand you correct that is what I was going to.

Q: Is it not a fact that in walking in that direction that the Texas School Book Depository was on your right?

A: It was on my right.

Q: And that is the direction you thought the noises came from?

A: I do not know whether they came from that Depository but it came from that direction or to my right.

Q: After you heard these noises that you thought were firecrackers, did the motorcade stop?

A: I don't know, sir, 'cause I didn't see it.

Q: You don't know. Now these photographs you have identified, that is the slides --

A: Yes, sir.

Q: -- is it not a fact that at the time those slides or pictures were taken that the people were scattering in many directions?

A: The pictures show that.

Q: Is it a fact they were, ma'am?

A: Yes, they were moving, yes.

Q: Now the people who are depicted as being moving in your slides, do you have any way of knowing if they were trying to get away from the directions of the shots or towards them or what?

A: I do not know. I don't know any of the people in the slides.

MR. DYMOND: That's all.

MR. ALFORD: In connection with Mrs. Bond's testimony the State at this time moves to offer what has been previously marked as S-41 and S-42.

MR. DYMOND: To which offering the Defense objects first on the ground of relevancy that they are irrelevant to the issues in this case. Secondly, on the ground they have not been properly identified as actual photographs taken by this witness. Thirdly, they have not been in her possession, and have been out of her possession. And additionally that the Exhibit-40, by the testimony of this witness, does not depict precisely the same scene as the scene depicted by the slide from which it was blown up.

MR. ALFORD: Relative to this last proposition the witness specifically testified that everything contained in the picture was also contained in the slide so if anything, they are identical except that there is more in the slide than on the blowup.

THE COURT: You are not offering the slides but the pictures?

MR. ALFORD: The slides have been offered in evidence before.

MR. DYMOND: No, they have not.

THE COURT: I will overrule the objection and let them be permitted in evidence.

MR. DYMOND: To which ruling Counsel reserves a bill of exception making the two exhibits S-40 and S-41.

THE COURT: It should be -41 and-42.

MR. DYMOND: -41 and -42, Defense objects to the introduction for the reasons stated and makes a part thereof the ruling of the Court, the exhibits themselves, the entire record and testimony up to this point parts of the bill.

MR. ALFORD: May it please the Court I would like the record to reflect that I am returning to Mrs. Bond what has been previously marked S-39 and S-40 and additionally I request permission to display same to the Jury.

THE COURT: They are an exhibit then now and you may exhibit them to the Jury.



Back to the top

Back to Shaw trial testimony

Search trial database chronologically

Additional resources on the trial of Clay Shaw


Search this site
    powered by FreeFind

Back to JFK menu

Dave Reitzes home page


CLICK HERE for your free counter from people have visited this site!