David Blackburst Newsgroup Archive:
David Ferrie: Background File



From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Ossy THE leftist
Date: 27 Jun 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000626235947.04187.00001282@ng-cj1.aol.com>


In a recent thread I wrote that a particular poster "picks and chooses" bits of evidence to support his working theses; but that everyone does so. Virtually everyone in this group, everyone with a website or journal, everyone who writes an article or book or produces a documentary. The old axiom IS true: You can make a case for or against anything.

In a case with so much information on the record as the JFK case (thousands of interviews, hundreds of thousands of documents, thosands of books and articles), it is not hard to pick and choose evidence to make a case. And some readers will see a writer make 5 or 10 or 20 points in support of that case, without realizing that there may be 50, or 100 or 200 points that contradict that case.

I can read some assassination books and come away with the impression that Oswald was not a leftist at all, that it was created by someone else to discredit him and the left. But when I pore over page after page after page of documentation on the subject (many in Oswald's own words) with an open mind, I am struck by the depth and consistency of the image he CHOSE to present.

Sure, he could have been faking it (although it would be hard to pick a date when he crossed over from real interest in Marxism to feigned interest), but it is also possible - much more possible than many writers concede - that it is genuine. And that creates a host of interpretaional problems in terms of conspiracy.

And the same holds true for other areas of the case. One can look at a few trees, but one doesn't get the whole picture without looking at the forest. Take the Ferrie case, which I've been drawn into in recent years. Most people simply accept a few "factoids" and never look further, and thus have a wildly inaccurate, cartoon image of Ferrie. But when you look at the context in which these events occurred, other possibilities emerge.

But, as always, maybe I'm wrong. Other people may disagree.

Thanks again.




From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: David Ferrie's "suicide notes"
Date: 02 Jun 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <19990601235558.26260.00007393@ng-fx1.aol.com>

Dave Reitzes quotes Barb:
>I wonder if Ferrie is speaking bitterly about a personal brush with
>the judicial system? [in the longer farewell note]

Yes. Ferrie had some hefty legal troubles between August 1961 and late 1962. He refers in the letter to Judge Cocke, with whom he had difficulties. Ferrie felt that he had been singled out for a shakedown.

>And his thoughtful remarks about the needs of
>children make me wonder what his own childhood might have been like.
>Is anything known about that?

His own childhood was fairly uneventful. Loving dad (police officer, later a lawyer), mom, brother. A few health problems. But Ferrie took an inordinate interest in the lives of his young friends, such as Al Cheramie, Al Landry, Al Beauboeuf.

>Is enough history of Ferrie known to determine who he may have been
>addressing in this note

An uncensored version shows it is to "Al", and the content makes clear that it is to Al Beauboeuf, Ferrie's dearest friend.




From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: David Ferrie notes
Date: 22 Jun 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000622001001.04163.00000512@ng-cj1.aol.com>

Bill B wrote:
>Where did he achieve sufficient multi-engine proficiency to be hired
>directly by the air line?

Ferrie achieved some of this proficiency in the CAP in Cleveland, and when he was employed by Jeda Oil and Drilling Co. He took his multi-engine test on July 31, 1948, and started with Eastern in 1951. The airline gave him additional training.

>What did this hyper-activist do in WW II period
>after leaving seminary?

Ferrie graduated from Baldwin-Wallace College in June 1941. He was notified that he was about to be drafted, and wangled a hurry-up admission to St. Charles Seminary in July and August. He left St. Charles in November 1944, and was not called for the draft.

>There is no record of request for active duty
>during Korean War, either.

Ferrie enlisted in the US Army Reserve on April 13, 1950, just before the Korean War began. At this point, he began writing the famous letters to the Secretary of Defense and Commander of the First Air Force, asking for a direct commission to train pilots. ("I want to train killers...")

David Blackburst



From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: David Ferrie notes
Date: 22 Jun 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000622145709.19340.00002621@ng-cg1.aol.com>

Bill wrote:
>Ferrie flew four engine aircraft? Domestic only, as have heard nothing
>otherwise, right?

So far as I know. He apparently learned on an airplane owned by Jeda, possibly by Jean Naatz herself. His 7/31/48 test was taken on a Cessna T-50. When he joined Eastern on April 1950, he was sent to Miami for a 3-wwek flight training program, and he flew only co-pilot for his first year. In October 1951, he went again to Miami for Ground School on the new Martin 404. (Captain Eddie had purchased 60 of them before they were even certificated.) In 1955, he learned the Douglas DC-4. In May 1957, he qualified on both the Lockheed original 1049 Constellation and the L-1049C Super Connie, and in June Ferrie attended Ground School for the Convair 440. His first and only experience with jet engines was the Lockheed Electra L-188 propjet.

>With war on, why just _train_?

I dunno, that's what Ferrie seemed to want. He always fancied himself a teacher and flying instructor, and I guess he thought he could be of maximum value training fighter pilots, sort of in the Steve Canyon/Terry and the Pirates mold.

David Blackburst



From: dreitzes@aol.com (Dave Reitzes)
Subject: Re: David Ferrie notes
Date: 22 Jun 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000622054325.21208.00004384@ng-bh1.aol.com>

Hi David,

I've been meaning to ask you about this for some time. Big Jim says this in his memoirs:

"I remembered Ferrie's reputation as an adventurer and pilot. Because I had been a pilot myself during World War II, the legend that he could get a plane in and out of the smallest of fields had stuck in my mind" (OTTOTA, 1991 ed., 5).

Any idea where he got this?

On a related note, Garrison continues:

"And so had other fragments -- his involvement in the abortive 1961 Bay of Pigs invasion of Cuba, his anti-Castro activities, and his frequent speeches to veterans' groups about patriotism and anti-communism. The name of David Ferrie was well known in New Orleans" (Ibid.).

Putting aside the dubious Bay of Pigs thing and his anti-Castro activities, which have been worked over fairly well here, what about, first, the speeches -- was it something Ferrie did much of? Or was it mainly that one time in July '61?

Second, it seems unlikely to me -- regardless of how true some of these stories may or may not be -- that Garrison would have known anything about Ferrie prior to his own investigation into Cap'n Dave's life. I have to challenge the assertion that Ferrie's name was "well known" in the Big Easy. Clay Shaw's name, yes. Guy Banister's name, maybe. Dave Ferrie's? I'm skeptical.

One possible exception, though. It seems quite possible -- not necessarily likely -- that Garrison might have come across Ferrie's name in relation to Marcello. (Obviously, I doubt very much that Big Jim was as oblivious to that "legitimate businessman's" business as he would claim.) Also, was it Layton Martens who told Gus Russo that Ferrie had been assisting Guy Banister in gathering "dirt" on the DA? I'd sure like to know whether there's any truth to that. If they perchance were doing so at Carlos Marcello's bidding, it might help explain a couple of things.

Anyway, in addition to my curiosity about Garrison's "Ferrie pilot legend," I have to challenge Garrison's assertion that Ferrie was well known in New Orleans. I suspect this is a fairy tale, designed to make Ferrie seem like a more "obvious" candidate for suspicion. What do you think?




From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: David Ferrie notes
Date: 22 Jun 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000622113931.15953.00009537@ng-md1.aol.com>

Dave Reitzes wrote:
>"I remembered Ferrie's reputation as an adventurer and pilot. Because I had
>been a pilot myself during World War II, the legend that he could get a plane
>in and out of the smallest of fields had stuck in my mind" (OTTOTA, 1991 ed.,

>Any idea where he got this?

No specific source. Eastern Air Lines pilots described him as a good or competent but not great pilot. Many of his flying student felt he was an unusually skilled pilot. One of his former employers, Jean Helen Naatz, called him "an excellent pilot, and one of the best male pilots she ever knew...His ability as a pilot was above reproach." But no specific source for the Garrison quote.

>what about, first, the speeches
>-- was it something Ferrie did much of? Or was it mainly that one time in

Leaving aside the frequent speeches Ferrie made over the years on behalf of Eastern Air Lines, during his active period with the Frente Revolucionario Democratico (April 1961 until his morals arrests in August 1961), Ferrie apparently made several speeches dealing with Cuba. I have records of about 4 of them.

>Second, it seems unlikely to me -- regardless of how true some of these
>may or may not be -- that Garrison would have known anything about Ferrie
>to his own investigation into Cap'n Dave's life.

New Orleans had a small town atmosphere in those days. Ferrie was well-known and generally well regarded by, for example, the many people he had trained to fly. Some were affiliated with the DA's office. I think it is possible that Garrison may have heard about these things before 1967.

He certainly was aware of Ferrie in 1961-1962, when his office handled the Orleans Parish morals charges against him. He may have heard some of the stories at that time. (Somebody recently told me that, even today, many people in NO have Ferrie stories.)

>Also, was it Layton
>Martens who told Gus Russo that Ferrie had been assisting Guy Banister in
>gathering "dirt" on the DA? I'd sure like to know whether there's any truth
>to >that.

I'm not sure about this. [I have my doubts as well.--DR]

David Blackburst



From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: David Ferrie notes
Date: 23 Jun 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000623100741.02938.00003545@ng-cg1.aol.com>

Dave Reitzes wrote:
>It's possible Garrison is embellishing some rumor he picked up, maybe from
>one of Ferrie's cadets.

Also, I think Dave Ferrie liked to cultivate the mystique that he was a crackerjack pilot involved in important activities. If you project that image, and some people believe it, that enhances your reputation.

>Dick Billings notes that a Sargent Pitcher from Baton Rouge (I believe
>Billings names him as the DA -- I don't have my notes with me right now)
>brought the NODA an audio recording of a Ferrie speech -- no mention of
>whether or not the NODA kept it or made a copy of it. It would be
>interesting to hear something like that, if it still exists somewhere.

I'll re-check the Billings journal. I have a feeling that it's actually a recording Ferrie made in early 1962, detailing his legal woes, and what he described as a shakedown. He was trying to interest a grand jury, the FBI and several other entities in investigating the district attorneys and police/sheriff's departments about the shakedown. Last I heard, it was in Connick's posession.




From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Ferrie and Capt. Neville Levy
Date: 30 Jun 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000630101252.02011.00001482@ng-cg1.aol.com>

Dave Reitzes wrote:
>I'm sure you're familiar with the allegations of Capt. Neville
>Levy, who said that "once during the mid-50's, Ferrie and two other men
>visited him to ask for funds to help Fidel Castro's war against the
>Batista regime" (James & Wardlaw, Plot or Politics, 45).

>What do you make of Levy's story? Aside from the dubious statements of
>Perry Russo, is there any other evidence that Ferrie was a pro-Castro
>activist in the '50s?

Based on available evidence, I cannot rule out the possibility that Ferrie was pro-Castro prior to summer 1959. In a statement from a CAP cadet (Johnny Johnson, Douglas McGray?) in the FAA report, I recall something about him first supporting Castro.

I am not sure about him being an activist in this cause, as related by Levy. It sounds much more like Ferrie's anti-Castro activities of April-August 1961. But I can't be sure.

In any case, Ferrie himself wrote that information about Castro being a communist came into his hands in summer 1959.

>According to James & Wardlaw, Levy "said he had known Ferrie as a pilot in
>the New Orleans area since World War II." Obviously, there seems to be a
>problem with this statement.

Yes. Ferrie was transferred to NO by EAL (at his request) in mid-1951. It is possible that Ferrie spent some time there at the beginning of 1949, during his "lost period" in Tampa.




From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: RP: Dave Ferrie told the truth
Date: 06 Jun 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <19990606102347.13714.00001546@ng-fv1.aol.com>

Haizen Paige wrote: >David William Ferrie was also quoted as saying: "I want to train
>killers." (I'm sure someone can fill you in on the source.) Train
>killers for what? The ice skating rink? Bingo maybe?

Ferrie, who had a long record of speaking in very grandiose terms, made these comments in a letter written in 1950, at the height of the Korean War anti-communist hysteria, 13 years before the assassination. The full quote can be found in the New York Review of Books, 9/14/67.

Just an opinion: We are faced with two conflicting views of a 1963 Ferrie-Oswald relationship. The statements of Ferrie and his known acquaintences, and the contemporaneous record do not support such a relationship. But Garrison HSCA and others have gathered post-1967 statements from a substantial number of people who said there was such a relationship. One of these views has to be wrong. Which one is hard to say for sure. Ferrie may have known Oswald in 1963, but he may not.

I have long wondered, if Ferrie was the master conspirator who manipulated Oswald on behalf an assassination cabal, why they did nothing to help him after the assassination, when his life skidded into the abyss of go-nowhere jobs. When one puts aside the Garrison era dogma, Ferrie can be seen in much more subtle and complex terms.



From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Why was Clay Shaw a suspect?
Date: 16 Dec 1998 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <19981216015532.10884.00002895@ng-cc1.aol.com>

Dreitzes wrote:
>Garrison linked Ferrie to Marcello because Ferrie "allegedly" flew
>Marcello back to the US after Bobby Brat Kennedy deported him

Little known background of this story: This allegation traces back to a February 9, 1962 Border Patrol interview of Eric Michael Crouchet, who was, at that time, the complaining witness against Ferrie in a morals case. (Later in 1962, Crouchet mended fences with Ferrie and recanted the morals charges.)

It has been said that Ferrie was introduced to Marcello by attorney G. Wray Gill. Ferrie was introduced to Gill in mid-November of 1961 by Jack Martin and Hardy Davis, so presumably, Ferrie met Marcello after this date. However, Marcello was smuggled back into the US in June 1961, so it does not seem likely that Ferrie was the pilot.

It is true, however, that Ferrie worked on the Marcello case in 1963, and continued to associate with the Marcello family until at least 1966.





From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: D.W. Ferrie August 1959
Date: 30 Dec 1998 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <19981230010148.29792.00004659@ng-ft1.aol.com>

James wrote:
>It seems odd that Rickenbacker and Jean Naatz felt Ferrie was a
>great asset to the CAP in Ohio, yet his history connected to the
>Ohio CAP is very short and in conflict.

I think Ferrie was a great "Schmoozer". His life is filled with instances of people who loved him and stood by him, at the same time as others thought he was nutty. Jean Helen Naatz pretty much worshipped the ground he walked on. "Captain Eddie" Rickenbacker was impressed by Ferrie's activities as a spokesman for Eastern in the early 50s, at least until a subordinate clued him in to some misleading info on his job application.

Have you ever seen the 1948 commendation by USAF/CAP liaison Maj. Gen. Lucas V. Beau?




From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Jim Garrison made the whole thing up
Date: 26 Dec 1998 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <19981226102549.29669.00002456@ng-ft1.aol.com>

jko wrote:
>Your comments on the August 59
>incident mentioned would be welcomed, Ferrie was also being
>investigated in New Orleans at the same time, case was opened
>on the 11th I think, will have to check.

>I didn't want to bring up the Aug 59 incident since it is part of my
>script "Cuban Shadows", but it pertains to my opinion on Ferrie,

>I found several of your old posts that I saved concerning Ferrie as well
>as some Dave Blackburst presented, found them interesting, they should
>be reposted, imo.

Sounds very interesting. Feel free to repost any of my stuff here or at your site.

I should point out that the Eastern Air Lines memo you cite (S.J. Minissale, 14 August 1959) says, in part:
"Customs agents...had Pilot David William Ferrie placed under surveillance since they had a tip that Ferrie may be involved in a gun smuggling operation...After a 26-hour surveillance and background investigation, [Customs Agents] called to notify us that Ferrie was not involved in any nefarious acts of wrongdoing...Ferrie, who is a scout leader[presumably a reference to his Civil Air Patrol Squadron], had been trying to promote transportation to South America with the Air Force Transportation Corps. The [overheard telephone] conversation about the guns, tennis shoes and rope was in reference to a proposed hike at the termination of their proposed flight."

Sounds like Ferrie was cleared by Customs Agents.

[...] oo



From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Did Ferrie "fly missions over Cuba?"
Date: 05 Mar 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000305044552.03192.00000329@ng-fn1.aol.com>

Daniel Hopsicker wrote:
>> >Did Ferrie "fly missions over Cuba?" is a question on par with asking if
>> >the pope is catholic. the answer, in both cases, is 'of course.' as one
>> >who has just spent a year in louisiana writing a book about cia agent dave
>> >ferrie's most illustrius recruit i am amazed at how much i was able to
>> >find out about ferrie that has never seen the light of day.

For the reasons set forth below, I would be reluctant to accept such speculations without hearing the evidence direct from the sources.

I have spent many years examining the life of David Ferrie and his role in the New Orleans milieu. I have conducted numerous interviews with primary sources and obtained or read many thousands of pages of documents relating to these matters.

Ferrie's period of activity with the Cubans was very brief, beginning in late 1960 and abruptly ending in the fall of 1961 after his morals arrests. Throughout most of this period, his whereabouts are established by his employment and other records. He had very little opportunity to fly any missions.

Ferrie's connection with the CIA was very tangential. He volunteered to work with the local branch of the CIA-organized FRD for, as noted, a very brief period of time. He did tell a friend of an earlier contact with the CIA, but several of his friends strongly doubted portions of the story. Ferrie's financial and social difficulties reveal no indication of any secret backing. He did not benefit financially, and nobody intervened to prevent his severe legal difficulties. He died an impoverished broken man. A very close friend of many years said that Ferrie was given to braggadocio, but was not engaged in any secret activities.

Since Ferrie's death, a few people have come forward to allege various tales of Ferrie's involvement in such activities, but none of them pan out, none seem consistent with the provable record. (One man claimed to be Ferrie's roommate, to whom he confessed a role in CIA activities and the assassination. The man proved to be unfamiliar with the streets of New Orleans and the layout of Ferrie's apartment. When I asked if Ferrie had his moustache when the man knew him, he eagerly said yes and told tales about the ticklish moustache. Not only did Ferrie never grow a moustache: He was UNABLE to do so.) So I consider such sources subject to some degree of verification.

There are many untrue allegations about Ferrie that are widely accepted by the assassination community. Careful researchers should regard them with some degree of caution.

David Blackburst  


From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: who killed Eladio Del Valle?
Date: 29 Jun 1999 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <19990629090909.23763.00003615@ng-cf1.aol.com>

Atlasrecrd wrote:
>who killed Eladio Del Valle?
>just wondering if anyone knew.

Currently available records do not specify any particular perpetrators to delValle's murder. However contemporaneous police, FBI and news reports make note of his connection to black market activities, implying that Trafficante's crime syndicate may have somehow been connected.

The question of a connection to the JFK assassination rests upon delValle's alleged connection with David Ferrie. But nearly all published accounts of this track back to a newspaper article by delValle's friend, Diego Gonzales Tendedera. There is no corroboration for Tendedera's information, and at least parts of his story are questionable. The relationship as reported probably took place in late 1960-early 1961, but the claim that Ferrie and delValle were together every day for a sixth month period seems to conflict with Ferrie's work record with Eastern Air Lines. None of the thousands of documents I have found relating to Ferrie mention delValle, and none of his friends seem to remember him. I would be much more comfortable with Tendedera's story of a Ferrie/delValle relationship if it were confirmed by some other credible first-hand source.




Subject: Dave Ferrie and the Cubans
From: 6489mcadamsj@vms.csd.mu.edu (John McAdams)
Date: 6/4/99 1:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <37575cac.11300416@mcadams.posc.mu.edu>

From page 49 of THE GARRISON CASE by Milton Brener:

[quote on]

In the summer of 1961 Ferrie was arrested, though never convicted, for attempted crime against nature with a juvenile. Arrested with him was Martens. Apparently, the basis of Martens's arrest was nothing more serious than his presence in Ferrie's company. In September, Martens moved to Lafayette to continue his music studies at the University of Southwest Louisiana.

In October, 1961, Ferrie's brief Cuban adventure ended. Carlos Bringuier, a Cuban expatriate and attorney, asked Smith if he might meet with Ferrie; for from the things he had heard, said Bringuier, he did not think that association with Ferrie would do Smith or the Cuban cause any good. Shortly thereafter, Smith took Bringuier to Ferrie's house. Smith, Bringuier, Ferrie, and two young boys were present. Smith and Bringuier stayed but five, minutes. Bringuier came away convinced that Arcacha Smith should have nothing more to do with Ferrie and he so advised Smith. Ferrie's association with the group ended.

In February, 1962, the Crusade to Free Cuba disbanded. Undoubtedly, a major contributing factor was the dismal failure of the Bay of Pigs invasion. Whatever the cause, the group had accomplished little, fell to bickering, and the small group of prominent New Orleans conservatives left in disgust.

Shortly after the group disbanded, Smith, in considerable disfavor with the Cuban community, left New Orleans for Texas, settling first in Houston and ultimately in Dallas.

The activities of the Cuban community in New Orleans, if there were any, through the balance of 1962 and early 1963 apparently have left little impression on the memories of those close to the scene. There remains no evidence of any activity of significance, and such conjecture as has been forthcoming has made no mention of specific ventures. Through 1962 and 1963, Ferrie was frequently to be seen at the New Orleans Lakefront Airport and remained active in the Civil Air Patrol Unit through the beginning of 1963. He also performed investigative work for Bannister. Though Ferrie may have retained a friendship with some of the Cubans, he was distrusted and disliked by others.

[Quote off]


The Kennedy Assassination Home Page



Subject: Re: Dave Ferrie and the Cubans
From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Date: 6/4/99 9:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time
Message-id: <19990604091746.04750.00000415@ng-cj1.aol.com>

Atlasrecrd wrote:
> Why should we believe this person's [Milton Brener's] version of the events in N.O.?
> How do we know he doesn't have an axe to grind?

All I can add is that I have acquired numerous documents, contemporaneous and later, relating the Cubans in New Orleans, and they dovetail with Brener's account. Such known Ferrie acquaintences as Sergio Arcacha Smith, Carlos Quiroga, Carlos Bringuier, Luis Ravel and others agree that Ferrie's August 1961 morals arrests substatially curtailed Ferrie's anti-Castro activities, and helped cause Arcacha to be deposed as local head of the FRD/CRC. Jim Garrison once made reference to Arcacha and Ferrie being deposed by early 1962. While there is much documentation of Ferrie's anti-Castro activism in late 1960 and early 1961, there is very little verifiable information on such activities after early 1962.




From: blackburst@aol.com (Blackburst)
Subject: Re: Did Ferrie "fly missions over Cuba?"
Date: 13 Feb 2000 00:00:00 GMT
Message-ID: <20000213103847.01365.00000622@ng-ft1.aol.com>

Peter Fokes wrote:
>A Cuban official said:
>they needed DAVID FERRIE as the pilot on
>these flights."

Having looked very closely into the career of David Ferrie, while I cannot rule out the possibility that he may have made such flights at some juncture, I make the following observations:

1) Prior to September 1961, Ferrie was flying for Eastern Air Lines three times a week from New Orleans to Houston and other Texas cities, including two overnighters. There would not have been a great deal of opportunity for him to have made such flights from Florida. (And the flight log on his Stinson contains no indication of any such flights.)

2) Prior to April 1961, Ferrie was not fully accepted as an active participant by the anti-Castro Cubans.

3) After his August 1961 morals arrests, Ferrie was soon ostracized by the Cubans. Further, his Stinson soon entered a long period of inactivity.

Ferrie denied ever going to Cuba. However, he did tell a friend about one sojourn into Cuba in August 1960, which he said was for the CIA. He said he was wounded in the process, but his friends doubted this.

So the assertion that Ferrie made "flights" or extensive flights into Cuba is not strongly supported by the evidence.



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