The Clay Shaw preliminary hearing testimony of Perry Raymond Russo (continued)




Q. Do you remember how the people were dressed at that party?

A. Some, yes.

Q. Can you explain why you are able to remember this?


I make the same objection.


I have not finished my question yet.




Q. Can you explain why you are able to describe the dress of some of the people at that party and cannot even tell us who went there with you, nor approximately what time you got there?


I object. It is argumentative.




Because of the very nature of Dave Ferrie.


Q. Because of the very nature of Dave Ferrie?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Please explain what did the nature of Dave Ferrie have to do with your ability to remember these various things?

A. Dave Ferrie, to me was, to say the least, very interesting as a personality. He always, to me, gave off the appearance, and to my friends gave off the appearance, that he was prone to the spectacular. At least in words, if not in deeds, and so, on some occasions before I had met some of his friends, and these people were not normally dressed and up there or whenever I dropped on Dave you always expected something different, and generally speaking, even if he did not give it to you in words, it was in fact. And under those circumstances I took, it just impressed me, the contrast available.

Q. Do you consider a white shirt and a maroon sport jacket unusual or spectacular sort of dress?

A. In what context?

Q. You answer the question, please?


I object.




At Dave Ferrie's apartment, the place was in shambles, always messed up, and things were all about, ash trays always had cigarette butts in them, and the scene was always one of chaos, and this man was dressed differently. He just physically, by dress, was not, just did not belong there by dress.


Q. How was Lefty Peterson dressed on that occasion?

A. I don't recall.

Q. You would not know then whether his dress fit in with the surroundings?

A. Sir?

Q. You would not know whether his mode of dress fit in with the surroundings?

A. Lefty, to me, did not fit in the context either.

Q. I am talking about his dress.

A. I did not take note of his dress during that period of time. I was seeing him frequently.

Q. Referring to the girl, Sandra, who was with you, how was she dressed that night?

A. I don't recall.

Q. How many other people were at that party that night?

A. Maybe eight or ten.

Q. Other than the man whom you referred to as Clem Bertrand, Leon Oswald, and Ferrie, can you describe the dress of some of these other eight or ten people?

A. There were some Spanish-speaking guys who were dressed in dark greens.

Q. Fatigue uniforms?

A. Whatever you want to call them. I don't know if they were. Some were in khakis, khaki pants, and there were two young boys there, and I don't recall really what they were dressed in. I think in dungarees or something, but that would be about it.

Q. Is that the greatest particularity with which you can describe the dress of the other people?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Now, the group that was there that night, that is to say, the eight or ten people you have referred, what would you say the ratio of men to women were within that group?

A. There was the girl I had brought.

Q. Any other women?

A. Not that I recall.

Q. Do you think you would recall had they been there?

A. I don't know. Dave Ferrie was spectacular.

Q. So then, to the best of your recollection, Sandra was the only female in the bunch, is that right?

A. As far as I know, yes.

Q. How long did Sandra stay there at the party?

A. Perhaps a couple of hours.

Q. Did she leave before you did?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. How long did Lefty Peterson stay there?

A. I don't recall. Perhaps a couple of hours.

Q. Who left first, Sandra or Lefty Peterson?

A. I don't recall.

Q. Did Lefty leave before you did?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. You testified that you don't remember the other names of the people who arrived there with you; individually or as a group, do you recall how long they stayed there?

A. From the time I got there, perhaps, two hours, three hours, I don't know.

Q. They all left before you did, is that right?

A. The party began to dissipate and people were leaving, not in a group, everybody just did not walk out in a group.

Q. Can you give us any reason why you stayed there after the friends with whom you had arrived had left?

A. Because I did not have a ride.

Q. You could not go with them?

A. With whom?

Q. Your friends with whom you had arrived?

A. They had left, one at a time.

Q. They had left at what time?

A. One at a time.

Q. Were you concerned about getting a ride home from the apartment?

A. Well, I wanted to go home, and I figured Dave would give me a ride. He had done so on a previous occasion.

Q. Did you ask him whether he would or not?

A. No, not that I recall.

Q. You knew he had other guests there, didn't you?

A. There was a party going on. I was not going to be rude and say to stop the party and take me home. So, I did not say anything. I probably did discuss it with him at one time.

Q. Didn't you realize you would have to stay there until the entire party ended and everyone else left before Dave Ferrie could give you a ride?

A. At the very beginning I did not realize when my rides were leaving, or ride. Then when I could not do anything about it, I guess, well, I am stuck here.

Q. Did you ever ask Ferrie to give you a ride?

A. No, sir, it was not my habit to do so.

Q. Do you know a man by the name of Louie Lane?

A. No, sir.

Q. To possibly refresh your memory, this man has been in show business, and your testimony is that you don't know that?

A. Not by name.

Q. Therefore, I take it that you would not be able to testify as to whether he attended that party, is that right?

A. No, I couldn't testify that he was there.

Q. Do you know a man by the name of Joe Kenny, a musician?

A. The name rings a bell, but I don't know where.

Q. You say the name does ring a bell?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. To possibly refresh your memory, this man was known as the man of many horns; he was a musician; now, do you know him?

A. The man I know, as I know of many horns, could blow two trumpets. If that was the same guy, I know him, I met him.

Q. Was he at the party that night?

A. No, sir.

Q. Are you positive of that?

A. Absolutely sure of it. If the man I have in mind with two horns in his mouth, he was not at the party.

Q. Had you ever heard that man that you are referring called or referred to as the man of many horns?

A. I heard this man whom I saw perform introduced as a man who could do anything with a horn, and he blew two trumpets at one time, and the boss at this nightclub liked that.

Q. Is it your positive testimony that the man whom you knew who blew two trumpets at once was not at this party, is that correct?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. It is your testimony, is it not, Russo, that when this party dwindled down, there remained at the party Leon Oswald, Clay Bertrand, Dave Ferrie, and you?

A. No, sir.

Q. In what respect am I wrong in that question?

A. I was there, and Dave Ferrie was there, and Leon Oswald, but his name was not Clay, it was Clem.

Q. Clem Bertrand?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. It is your testimony those were the four people?

A. Yes, sir.


May I interrupt. The gentleman from Channel 6 is here. Is the attorney here? I am just making an inquiry about the return of a subpoena. Would you make your return now in open Court.

(Let the record show that the witness, Perry R. Russo, was removed from the witness stand.)


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