The Clay Shaw trial testimony of Lloyd Cobb, continued
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. ALCOCK:
Q: Mr. Cobb, did you have occasion, let's limit this to 1963, did you have occasion to see Clay Shaw, the Defendant in this case much after working hours?
A: I didn't hear the question.
Q: Did you have occasion to see the Defendant much after working hours during the year 1963?
A: Clay Shaw and I were never social friends and I had little or no social contact except in the performance of his duties with the Trade Mart. He had in charge visiting dignitaries or others and then I was in contact with him but I had, I may have had a drink with him or a group after office hours on occasion but other than that, no.
Q: Have you ever been to his apartment?
A: No, never.
Q: I take it then, that in the summer of 1963 that after working hours you had little or no contact with him, is that correct?
A: That is exactly what I said.
Q: Do you recall what he was wearing on the Nashville Street Wharf that day when President Kennedy spoke?
A: I don't recall what his apparel was on that occasion but it wasn't any different than what it was on other occasions or else I would have noticed it.
Q: I take it then by your answer relative to no social contact that you don't know what he wore generally when he was away from the Trade Mart?
A: No, I do not.
Q: Do you recall what time you and Shaw arrived at the Nashville Street Wharf on the day the President spoke?
A: I went out to the airport with, in a car I think our car was fourth or fifth and Mr. Nicholas Trist of St. Bernard Parish was in the car. It was an open sports car and my guess, and I'm only guessing, is that we arrived at the Nashville Street Wharf around 11:30 or so, but I don't remember particularly what time it was. I know the parade was a little delayed.
Q: Were you with Mr. Trist?
A: I was with Nicholas Trist and one or two other people but I don't recall who they were.
Q: You stayed there the entire time the President spoke?
A: Yes. I think I was on the platform and nobody left the platform until the President left for security purposes.
Q: Do you know, Mr. Cobb, or did you know, Mr. Cobb, whether or not the Defendant had relatives in Clinton, Louisiana?
A: Relatives in what?
Q: Clinton, Louisiana.
A: I don't know.
Q: Have you ever made any trips outside the City of New Orleans with the Defendant by automobile?
A: You are going back over a long period of years.
Q: Let's limit it to 1963.
A: I am sure I did not.
Q: I take it you knew he was from Hammond, is that correct?
A: I knew he lived in Hammond but I didn't know his family and never met his mother or father.
Q: Do you know Mr. Jeff Biddison?
Q: Where did you know him from?
A: I am a poodle lover.
Q: A poodle?
A: Yes. I have poodles and we had a poodle that was giving trouble around the house because we were trying to raise two male poodles in the same house and that didn't work, so my wife decided to get rid of one of them and we tried to pawn it off on many people and somehow or another we found out Jeff Biddison liked poodles and we maneuvered to get him to take it.
Q: Is that the only occasion you met him on?
A: I saw Jeff Biddison for a moment a couple of nights ago just to say hello and I don't think I've seen him in years.
Q: Do you know whether or not the Defendant, Clay Shaw, was friendly with Jeff Biddison?
A: I do not of my own knowledge, no, sir.
Q: Do you know of your own knowledge what type of automobile Jeff Biddison drives?
A: No, I have never seen his automobile -- You said Biddison?
A: I have never seen him in an automobile.
Q: Now did the Defendant come to you and request of you that he be allowed to make this speaking engagement on the West Coast?
A: There was a discussion between him and me in the latter part of August or September and these people from Portland had previously contacted the Trade Mart and they wanted Shaw, as I understood it at the time, and he said he would like to go about that time and there was to be some celebration out there, and I said "All right."
Q: This was unusual because I think you testified you were against speaking engagements at that time?
A: I was against speaking engagements while the Trade Mart financing was taking place but this was to take place in November. The Trade Mart processing had a deadline of October 8 and as I said before it didn't make any difference one way or the other whether he went, that is, from the Trade Mart viewpoint.
Q: Do you know a gentleman by the name of Gordon Novel?
Q: Do you ever recall his negotiating for a concession at the International Trade Mart?
A: I don't know Novel. I have never been in contact with him and I have absolutely no knowledge that he ever approached the Trade Mart for any kind of concession.
Q: Did you know a Mr. Mario Bermudez in the summer of '63 and fall of '63?
Q: What was his position?
A: In the fall of '63?
Q: In the fall of '63, correct.
A: In the fall of '63 I think Mr. Bermudez was -- at first he was Executive Director or Executive Vice-President of the Cordell Hull Foundation and he was -- He may have been Secretary of the International Relations Committee of the City of New Orleans, but if he was not then he had been appointed Secretary General of the Inter-American Municipal Organization. I would have to look in the records to tell you precisely what his position was at that time.
Q: Do you know whether or not he knew the Defendant at that time, during that time?
A: Whether he was aware?
Q: Whether or not he knew the Defendant Shaw during that time period.
A: I am sure he did know Shaw. They worked together.
MR. ALCOCK: No further questions.
RE-DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. DYMOND:
Q: One thing. You have testified you didn't have any contact with Mr. Shaw after working hours. What were your normal working hours during August, September and early October '63?
A: Mr. Dymond, I don't have any normal working hours and if I have work to do I do it and when I don't have work to do I do something else.
Q: Well, was your contact with Mr. Shaw confined to the hours say between 8:00 and 5:00 o'clock, 8:00 in the morning and 5:00 in the evening?
A: Not during that period. During that period I suppose I got down to my office innumerable times before 7:00 o'clock and maybe I didn't get home until 10:00 or 11:00 at night. We were working right on through and I am not saying Shaw was there all the time, but he was always available to me, I could reach him, I knew where he was during the regular day and we were talking back and forth and agreements were coming over to me and I was either approving or sending them to Mr. Coleman's office for revamping and something was happening almost every minute of the day during that period. It was perhaps the busiest period during my entire life.
MR. DYMOND: Thank you.
THE COURT: Is Mr. Shaw released from the obligations of the subpoena -- I mean Mr. Cobb?
MR. DYMOND: Yes, Mr. Cobb is.
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